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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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flboy
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Astrophoto for newbies???? new
      #4024190 - 09/03/10 01:17 PM

Being a total newbie when it comes to astrophoto & also in using a telescope, I was wondering if there are any websites designed for the beginner?

Any & all input/info will be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks ~ John


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drksky
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: flboy]
      #4024311 - 09/03/10 02:14 PM

Jerry Lodriuss's site is a good place to start.

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flboy
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: drksky]
      #4024343 - 09/03/10 02:31 PM

Many thanks Tony!!

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nemo129
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: flboy]
      #4024367 - 09/03/10 02:41 PM

Some intersting links:
Don Reed


ADVENTURES IN ASTROPHOTOGRAPHY WITH A SMALL TELESCOPE


Jim Solomon's Astrophotography Cookbook - a little dated!


Astronomy Online Org


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flboy
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: nemo129]
      #4024420 - 09/03/10 03:05 PM

Thanks Kirk!

I just ordered:
A Guide to Astrophotography with Digital SLR Cameras - Jerry Lodriguss

This looks like a great intro!

John


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nemo129
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: flboy]
      #4024480 - 09/03/10 03:34 PM

John,
Excellent choice. I have that one myself. Tony pointed you to a great resource. I hope you have or have access to a copy of Adobe Photoshop, as it becomes very useful and Jerry does a lot of his post processing work with it. Enjoy!


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flboy
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: nemo129]
      #4024484 - 09/03/10 03:37 PM

Kirk,

I meant to say that I ordered:

A Beginner's Guide to DSLR Astrophotography - Jerry Lodriguss

No, I don't have Photoshop, but may down the road after I get a hang of things.

Cheers!! John


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nemo129
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: flboy]
      #4024529 - 09/03/10 04:05 PM

John,
That is a good one also! In the meantime, when you get some images you could use gimp 2.6, it is free and does alot of what Photoshop can do.
Clear Skies!


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flboy
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? [Re: nemo129]
      #4024539 - 09/03/10 04:10 PM

Kirk,

Good to hear that it's a good read also. And I had to laugh when I saw you recommending gimp 2.6, since I'm a gimp lol!!

Broke my neck in an auto accident 10yrs ago, leaving me with a gimpy left leg. It's all good though, since I'm not 6' under.

Again, thanks ~ John


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Falcon-
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: flboy]
      #4024575 - 09/03/10 04:24 PM

Kirk: one small warning about GIMP, the current version (2.6) does not support 16bit-per-channel images so it is a bit limited when it comes to doing the initial stretch operations that most astrophotography images need. It is still a handy tool though, I use it for operations like layering different exposures of a bright object. 2.8 is under development and when it *is* released it is suposed to have 16bit-per-channel support. No idea how long that will be though.

BTW, GIMP stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program


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flboy
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: Falcon-]
      #4024616 - 09/03/10 04:59 PM

Falcon ~ how would this "does not support 16bit-per-channel images" effect the process?

John G ood I n M oment P resent


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Falcon-
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: flboy]
      #4024719 - 09/03/10 06:02 PM

Standard images such as JPEG images use 8bits of data per colour channel. Confusingly you often see the channels added up so that 8bits for Red, 8bits for Green and 8bits for Blue is a "24 bit colour" image.

8bits of data lets the computer store 256 levels of intensity for each colour. Combined together that is plenty of data to represent what our screens can display so 8bits-per-channel is good for most photography.

16bits per channel lets the computer store not double but 65535 levels of intensity in each colour! FAR more.

With astrophotography we are often capturing very bright stars and VERY dim nebulas or galaxies in the very same image - in that case 256 levels of intensity is just not enough to capture the detail we want! Thankfully most cameras can produce "RAW" files that are either 12bit or 14bit deep so we *can* capture more levels of intensity with the equipment. Likewise all the astrophoto software upscales that 12 or 14 bit RAW data to a full 16bits-per-channel so that you can work with(modify) the data without loosing the detail. Some AP apps even work at 32bit per channel!

One of the first things that is done with most astrophotography is the bring those dim details up to a brightness level where we can see them, this is "stretching" the data. Eventually the final output will be a 8bit per channel image, but especially for those early stretch operations being able to work in 16bit is a large advantage.

GIMP, since it does not support 16bit per channel images yet, converts any file you load into 8bit, so if you load an un-stretched stacked image into GIMP it will unintentionally toss out a whole bunch of data that you most likely wanted. For example a dim nebula may take up 500 or so intensity levels in the 16bit image, but if you convert over to 8bit right away that nicely detailed nebula will now take up only 2 intensity levels! This may make you think that your image was no good when in reality it was just the conversion to 8bit happening too soon.

This is why I use other applications for the early processing stages and only move to GIMP for a few finishing touches. DeepSkyStacker has a rough ability to do an initial stretch and IRIS, while not that easy to use, is free and can do all sorts of processing. Likewise inexpensive apps like Nebulosity have post-processing tools as well. There are many other options such as Photoshop or one of the higher-end astrophoto processing applications as well.

I should note that you can pretty much ignore all of this when you are doing things like Planetary Imaging, it mostly applies to Deep Sky Imaging where you have long exposures and lots of them stacked to bring out your images.

I hope that has cleared things up a bit and not added to your confusion!


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hydrogia
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: Falcon-]
      #4024746 - 09/03/10 06:14 PM

That explanation helped me a great deal! Thanks!

I use RawTherapee for converting and processing my raw files in Ubuntu, and after reading, I immediately went to see if it supported at least 16 bit... it does.

Unfortunately, I use GIMP for stacking and some final stretching, so this is a bit of disappointing news, but I'm sure there are other methods available in Linux to do this.

So far I'm happy with my process, but at least I know what I'm missing out on now.


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flboy
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: hydrogia]
      #4024775 - 09/03/10 06:31 PM

Falcon ~ many thanks!!!

I also have RegiStax & DeepSkyStacker. I'm new and just want some nice pics of nebs & galaxies. Which software should I start with?


Thanks ~ John


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Falcon-
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: flboy]
      #4024844 - 09/03/10 07:09 PM

Registax is best for Planetary and Lunar photography while Deep Sky Stacker is best for galaxies, nebula, clusters, etc.

I should warn that shooting afocal with a camera like your A720 will mean a dimmer view then prime focus imaging. The added magnification that an eyepiece and the lens in your camera puts into the light coming out of the telescope reduces the brightness and field-of-view that the camera can see. Because of this you will probably only be able to go after the brightest deep sky objects (Core of the Orion Nebula, Globular Clusters like M13, etc).

Afocal will be able to get close in on planets like Jupiter nicely though, and the video mode may be useful in that case.


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Falcon-
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: hydrogia]
      #4025284 - 09/04/10 12:03 AM

Quote:

Unfortunately, I use GIMP for stacking and some final stretching, so this is a bit of disappointing news, but I'm sure there are other methods available in Linux to do this.




First thing you can do is grab and compile a GIMP 2.7 snapshot. 2.7 is the in-development version of 2.8 so you may have better luck with 16bit files there.

Another is I would bet DSS works under WINE if you have that running. Could help for at least the stacking part of the equation.

I also recently stumbled on this software: THELI I have never used it and I suspect it may be more focused to monochrome imaging, but perhaps that can fill your linux-processing needs?


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flboy
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: Falcon-]
      #4025711 - 09/04/10 09:01 AM

Falcon ~ many thanks for your input. I'm just starting to become familiar with the terms afocal & prime.
Would this set-up work?:

1. Canon A720is

2. http://www.bugeyedigital.com/product_main/bow-a52b700c.html

3. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400028524023

4. http://www.telescopes.com/telescope-eyepieces/125-inch-eyepieces/celestronzoomeyepiece824mm125inchformat.cfm?RNtt=celestron%208mm-24mm%20zoom

note: the zoom EP has the 42mm threads under the rubber.


Thanks for your time!!

John

Edited by flboy (09/04/10 09:05 AM)


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Falcon-
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: flboy]
      #4026095 - 09/04/10 12:34 PM

It looks like that setup would work, ya. I have not done afocal imaging myself so I do not know anything about the required spacing between the camera's lens and the eyepeice, that would be the question in my mind.

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flboy
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: Falcon-]
      #4026721 - 09/04/10 07:43 PM

Okay! Does anyone know the spacing for the afocal set-up?

Does the camera lens touch the EP?

Or is it a 1/16" off?

If the lens adapter isn't long enough, can two be screwed together?

John


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nemo129
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Re: Astrophoto for newbies???? new [Re: Falcon-]
      #4027024 - 09/04/10 10:56 PM

Quote:

one small warning about GIMP, the current version (2.6) does not support 16bit-per-channel images



Falcon,
I have heard that, and I actually have sprung for a copy of Photoshop, but if you have nothing else it's better than nothing. I really hope 2.8 does do 16 bits per channel images. I had heard that 2.6.8 was going to do that only to find that it is limited to 8 bits per channel. I call it gimp because who wants to type out "GNU Image Manipulation Program" every time!
No offense to anyone with a disability intended.

Thanks for the explanation and list of alternatives. As always you are a great source of information!


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